View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0005557RAMExpertBugpublic2019-06-29 22:25
ReporterwolfAssigned ToKyle_Katarn 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status acknowledgedResolutionopen 
PlatformNotebookOSWindows 10 64-bitOS Version1809
Product Version1.10.4 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0005557: Wrong and contradicting RAM recognition
DescriptionRAMExpert recognizes my RAM model, capacity, slot and manufacturer correctly. It does further display resp. calculate the size of physical memory correctly too. It further displays number of slots and current memory correctly.

The Memory type has a part recognized correctly and another part wrong!

The maxmimum memory reported is larger than reported by the CPU manufacturer! This may be correct as another tool reports the same.

According to https://www.ark.intel.com my i7-8000 CPU supports up to 32 GB of RAM, depending on type. The CPU supports LPDDR3-2333 and DDR4-2400. The notebook mainboard supports only DDR4-SODIMM as far as I know. RAMExpert and HWiNFO64 report that my CPU supports 64 GB of RAM.

These tools disagree on the serial number and the memory type. They both recognize DDR4 type but disagree on memory speed. RAMExpert reports PC4-19200 while Module manufacturer and HWiNFO64 report PC4-21300.
Additional InformationIt seems that RAMExpert does the wrong query. HWiNFO reveals 48 attributes which seems to be incomplete while RAMExpert reports just 6 which is even more and certainly incomplete. HWiNFO does not only report a subset of features with capacities of the recognized modul but also how it is used in which modes including mode switches i.e. due to power management. This revelation by HWiNFO64 lets assume that RAMExpert does not report the value of the speed of the memory modul but instead report the value of the speed this modul was used when RAMExpert was started!

I don't know if the CPU may switch memory speed up in CPU turbo mode beyond the memory speed in CPU standard mode. I fear not. I fear that CPU turbo mode concerns just the CPU, hence the speed of processing the data already present at the CPU while keeping the memory speed unmodified. And that maximum memory speed supported by the CPU is DDR4-2400 which corresponds to PC4-19200. But that's not the capacity of the modul which the OEM has inserted on manufacturing the notebook which is as reported by HWiNFO (PC4-21300).
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0005125 acknowledgedKyle_Katarn PC4-28800 indicated as PC4-28264 
related to 0002443 acknowledgedKyle_Katarn Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A160 identified as PC2-5336 instead of PC3-12800 

Activities

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-25 23:01

administrator   ~0003501

Known issue (see related issue).
RAMExpert uses Win32_PhysicalMemory class : https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/cimwin32prov/win32-physicalmemory
Indication is simply computed by PC4-[Win32_PhysicalMemory.Speed x 8]

But for some reason it seems not to be a reliable method....

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-25 23:02

administrator   ~0003502

One clue : I'm using "Speed" while "ConfiguredClockSpeed" may be a better solution !

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-25 23:10

administrator   ~0003503

Maybe using https://github.com/RRUZ/tsmbios/tree/master/Samples as an alternative source to WMI ?

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-26 00:29

administrator   ~0003505

Would you please open a command line and type : wmic memorychip
Please share result here, this will help to understand what's wrong... and how to fix.

wolf

2019-06-27 00:49

reporter   ~0003509

I don't know if this github source is more appropriate.

For your request, I changed the console command line with a redirect of its output. You'll find that output attached.

wolf

2019-06-27 00:50

reporter   ~0003510

Now the attachement. (Entered the wrong button prematurely.)

memorychip.txt (2,054 bytes)
��Attributes  BankLabel  Capacity    Caption          ConfiguredClockSpeed  ConfiguredVoltage  CreationClassName     DataWidth  Description      DeviceLocator       FormFactor  HotSwappable  InstallDate  InterleaveDataDepth  InterleavePosition  Manufacturer  MaxVoltage  MemoryType  MinVoltage  Model  Name             OtherIdentifyingInfo  PartNumber        PositionInRow  PoweredOn  Removable  Replaceable  SerialNumber  SKU  SMBIOSMemoryType  Speed  Status  Tag                TotalWidth  TypeDetail  Version  

1           ChannelA0  8589934592  Physical Memory  2400                  1200               Win32_PhysicalMemory  64         Physical Memory  Bottom-Slot 1(top)  12                                     0                    0                   Micron        0           0           0                  Physical Memory                        8ATF1G64HZ-2G6H1  1                                                 18F31134           26                2400           Physical Memory 0  64          16512                

memorychip.txt (2,054 bytes)

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-27 22:17

administrator   ~0003512

Weird as PC4-21300 should work with a clock at 2666 while your system reports 2400 (as 19200) . Maybe a problem of SMBIOS record or WMI interface issue :-(

wolf

2019-06-28 17:52

reporter   ~0003517

I can't see what you consider weird. It seems to me that you conclude too quickly. HWiNFO together with some context information provides the best explanation.

Context: There is just one memory modul in my notebook as expected. It is the original modul included by the (very large) OEM computer manufacturer resp. integrator. This modul is a PC4-21300 modul which can operate at 2666 MHz. Such information is typically found in a table on the memory modul which has been defined more than a decade ago (SPD, located on seperate SPD EEPROM on the memory modul). I don't remember if it started with the switch to DDR modules or if it had already been introduced during the times of SIMM modules. In the beginning of those tables, these tables have not always been filled properly. So they might provide goot hints but should be verified by other means.

HWiNFO reports me changing memory speeds probably due to power management. I observed values between 800 and 2400 MHz. I never saw 2666 MHz as actual operating mode, even when the CPU was in turbo boost mode.

I don't know but only assume that CPU as well as chip set won't operate beyond 2400 MHz for that CPU unless configured for overclocking. And overclocking doesn't sound a good idea for a notebook. If I want to experiment with overclocking, I would use a desktop system and take some precautions especially concerning the cooling system before experimenting. I've done so for an RasbPI as recommended with the lowest overclocking step recommended and appropriate passive cooling system mounted. As far as I understand, there exist further steps but should be used only with additional active cooling system.

So as various tools report the modul property identical as PC4-21300, doesn't mean they're used in that mode. In HWiNFO, there are fields for the currently used mode as well as for the modul capacities. Don't confuse them nor mix them! HWiNFO reporting doesn't sound weird nor problematic, confusing only to non-technical people or to people which don't take a closer look.

So different values reported by RAMExpert are astonishing as well why such an OEM decides to mount PC4-21300 on a PC4-19200 system. This modul is more expensive. But this is downward compatible. So no issue for hardware stability. And I couldn't read something about different thermal capacities neither.

As far as I remember, there exist open source memory test programs which should be able to report errors also in this SPD table. This might provide some hints how to improve RAMExpert.

Kyle_Katarn

2019-06-29 22:25

administrator   ~0003524

I'll check TSMBIOS

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-06-22 17:17 wolf New Issue
2019-06-25 22:55 Kyle_Katarn Relationship added related to 0005125
2019-06-25 22:55 Kyle_Katarn Relationship added related to 0002443
2019-06-25 23:01 Kyle_Katarn Assigned To => Kyle_Katarn
2019-06-25 23:01 Kyle_Katarn Status new => acknowledged
2019-06-25 23:01 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003501
2019-06-25 23:02 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003502
2019-06-25 23:10 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003503
2019-06-26 00:29 Kyle_Katarn Status acknowledged => feedback
2019-06-26 00:29 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003505
2019-06-27 00:49 wolf Note Added: 0003509
2019-06-27 00:50 wolf File Added: memorychip.txt
2019-06-27 00:50 wolf Note Added: 0003510
2019-06-27 22:17 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003512
2019-06-28 17:52 wolf Note Added: 0003517
2019-06-29 22:25 Kyle_Katarn Note Added: 0003524
2019-06-29 22:25 Kyle_Katarn Status feedback => acknowledged