View Issue Details
|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0005578||SUMo||New Feature||public||2019-07-14 23:57||2019-08-15 12:58|
|Platform||Desktop||OS||Windows 10 Pro||OS Version||1809|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0005578: Feature Request - Software I'd like to see SUMo monitor.|
|Description||Apple Software Update|
YTD Video Downloader https://www.ytddownloader.com/
Bethesda.net Launcher https://bethesda.net/en/game/bethesda-launcher
Bonjour Print Services for Windows https://support.apple.com/kb/dl999?locale=en_US
Chrome Remote Desktop Host https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-remote-desktop/gbchcmhmhahfdphkhkmpfmihenigjmpp?hl=en
Futuremark SystemInfo (launched by Steam) https://benchmarks.ul.com/systeminfo
Killer Performance Driver Suite UWD https://support.killernetworking.com/
MSI ODD Monitor https://msi-odd-monitor.software.informer.com/download/?dgc=SM&cid=60901&lid=806670422&linkId=34363399
Password Agent http://www.moonsoftware.com/password_agent
Pogo Games Manager http://downloadgames.pogo.com/
StarDock Fences https://www.stardock.com/products/fences/download
TerraMaster RAID Manager http://download.terra-master.com/download.php?lng=en&tid=983
VdhCoApp (video download helper companion app) https://github.com/mi-g/vdhcoapp
|Steps To Reproduce||N/A|
|Tags||No tags attached.|
I've a long list of programs, applications and components reported by SUMo. And I know that this list is far from complete.
So I checked your list with the one already reported by SUMo and with local Windows installer database. I found TWO of the tools enumerated in your wish list as installed on my computer. These two are:
* Apple Software Updater
Then I checked if these two are also reported by SUMo, the installation directory and the file version info of the main binary. I can confirm that these tools are found in Windows standard locations on my computer as installed for any Windows user, not just the installing Windows user. I further found that both tools have product version info and file version info. So I expect SUMo to report both without any need to change SUMo code implementation. I further found that for one of these tools, file version and product version differ slightly, that file name and original name differ, and that for the other tool publisher organisation and copyright issuer differ. I further wondered why the local Windows installer database reports file version instead of expected product version for the tool with the slight difference on it.
Concerning final SUMo report list, I couldn't find Apple Software Updater reported regardless if sorting by product name or by publisher organisation. Don't know yet why. For WinRAR, SUMo report list has three entries on my computer. One entry is for the installed GUI binary, one for its command line companion binary, and the third one is for the command line binary in a portable launcher framework.
So do you have all these programs of your wish list already installed?
Did you install all these programs in standard locations or did you request some alternative storage location?
Did you install all these programs for any Windows user or only for the installing Windows user?
Did you install all these programs in classical manner or for a portable launcher framework (like PortableApps as the most well known)?
Do you know if all these programs are classical programs or some are just a collection of scripts bundled together, Java archive applications, or Windows Apps?
Do you mean that you don't find any of these programs of your wish list reported in SUMo final report list?
Did you keep SUMo detection mode in its standard default mode or change to some other mode?
How large is your final SUMo report list?
If all those programs on your wish list are
* installed in standard locations,
* if they not only have product version but also file version incorporated,
* installed for any (resp. all) Windows users, and
* classical programs
then I expect all of them in the final SUMo report list without any code change.
To my mind come four handling options how you may support the analysis why these programs are not listed on your computer beside answering my above questions. The third and fourth handling option may be optional. The first and the second handling option may be combined if you prefer:
1. You may change the SUMo detection mode. If you didn't change it before, then you may change it to advanced deeper scanning instead of standard scanning. You'll find this configuration via SUMo Options menu -> settings window and their in the left center region of configuration options (field: Scan:). You may put it to In-depth (Slower) instead of its default of Normal. You may then either confirm and leave this change via OK button or combine it with handling option 2. below. If you confirm now, you shoud then request SUMo to scan again, then to check again, it see which of your tools of your wish list get now reported.
2. You may change temporarily the SUMo operation mode of standard mode to debug mode. It's the same path to SUMo settings window as described above, now field Debug mode to activate. Please confirm this change via OK button. Then I recommend to exit SUMo and start it again. Then request a SUMo scan action, followed by a SUMo check action. When the SUMo report list is finished, you'll find the log file either with key short cut (Ctrl + L) or via Help Menu ? -> Open Log File. Please save this log file and send it for analysis. You may send it by attaching it to this feature request if you feel free to do so. Then I may analyze it. If you don't like attaching it, you may also choose to send it to KC Softwares support (https://www.kcsoftwares.com/?contacts ) via email where I don't have access (as standard or advanced user). Have you already purchased SUMo professional license for getting priority support?
Please remain patient for feed back of support as its limited staffed as not every SUMo users has yet decided to buy the professional license, it's located in France where holiday season started yesterday with its national holiday. If you prefer the email variant, please don't forget to mention "log file for feature request 0005578" in its subject so that support may relate it to your feature request.
3. For every program of your list, you may look up your local Windows installer database and file versions of the main binaries of these programs. You'll find this local Windows installer database via control panel -> programs -> programs and features.
* Do you find every program of your wish list there resp. which are missing there?
* Does this database report a version there for every program of your wish list resp. which of these programs have the version field empty?
Then you may use Windows Explorer to look up the storage location of every program of your wish list. Usually that's a programs folder on the system drive root which usually has drive letter C:\. Look first for the main binary for every program of your list via Windows Explorer, select it, and open the properties entry, then move on to details tab. That's the visible part of file version info. Look for every of your programs if this file version info fields have filled product version and file version fields. For which programs of your list these fields are empty?
If the main binary doesn't have these fields filled, you may look up some other executables next and then some other main shared libraries next. Are these fields empty too?
In the mean time I forgot the fourth option. It propably depends on the results of analysis on the 2nd option.
All of the programs on my wish list are already installed as shown below:
LEGEND: P&Fv = listed in Programs & Features with file version
DBG = found using in-depth scan
DET = Properties DETails has product version listed (only checked the ones that didn't have DBG checked or had some other issue)
Apple Software Update C:\Program Files (x86)\Apple Software Update P&Fv DET (DBG thinks SoftwareUpdate.exe is an installer/uninstaller which it is but it's special)
YTD Video Downloader C:\Program Files (x86)\GreenTree Applications\YTD Video Downloader P&Fv DBG (ytd.exe)
Bethesda.net Launcher F:\Program Files (x86)\Bethesda.net Launcher P&Fv DET (DBG could not find BethesdaNetLauncher.exe)
Bonjour Print Services for Windows C:\Program Files (x86)\Bonjour P&Fv DBG (mDNSResponder.exe)
Chrome Remote Desktop Host C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome Remote Desktop P&Fv DBG (remoting_desktop.exe)
Discord C:\Users\Frank\AppData\Local\Discord\app-0.0.305\Discord.exe <-- this is where it normally installs P&Fv DET
FastPreview C:\Program Files\Nils Maier\FastPreview P&Fv DBG (fastpreview.exe)
Futuremark SystemInfo (launched by Steam) C:\Program Files (x86)\Futuremark\SystemInfo P&Fv DBG (found entire suite)
Hashtab C:\Program Files\HashTab Shell Extension P&Fv No .exe
Killer Performance Driver Suite UWD C:\Program Files\Killer Networking P&Fv DBG (detected entire suite)
MSI ODD Monitor C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI\ODD Monitor P&Fv DBG (ODD_Monitor.exe)
Password Agent C:\Program Files (x86)\Password Agent P&Fv DBG (PwAgent.exe)
Pogo Games Manager C:\Users\Frank\AppData\Local\GamesManager <-- this is where it normally installs P&Fv DBG (GamesManager.exe)
StarDock Fences C:\Program Files (x86)\Stardock\Fences P&Fv DBG (Fences.exe)
TerraMaster RAID Manager C:\Program Files (x86)\JMRAIDManager P&Fv No DET (HWRaidManager.exe)
VdhCoApp (video download helper companion app) C:\Program Files\net.downloadhelper.coapp P&F: no file version listed DBG (net.downloadhelper.coapp-win-64.exe) DET
WinRAR c:\Program Files\WinRAR P&Fv DBG (WinRAR.exe)
Most of the time when I install programs the installer doesn't ask me if I am installing for all users or just for me but if I'm asked, 75% of the time I say "just for me". However, I don't remember specifically for the ones in this list. I'm a little curious as to why that makes a difference, though.
All of the programs in this list were installed normally (non-portable).
Every program in this list is a bonafide .exe except Hashtab.
Yes, I mean I don't find any of these programs in my list when it scans and checks the system. Including WinRAR.
My scan is set for Normal mode.
My final SUMo report list contains 171 products.
NOTE: I dropped 3 programs from my original list because they were in my ignore file.
I ran a combined debug mode + in-depth scan and indicated in the above table which files it found. I sent the log to KC Softwares support. My final list now contains 569 products. Is there any way to tell SUMo that I want it to continue scanning just for the ones in my list, like select the file and say "keep". Then, go back to the normal scan mode?
What's the issue with portable apps? What makes them such that your scan can't detect file version info?
Have you already purchased SUMo professional license for getting priority support? I just did. You'll find it registered under my forum email address.
I don't understand your feed back on TerraMaster Raid Manager nor on VdhCoApp.
Do you mean that for TerraMaster Raid Manager Windows reports it as installed but does not report a product version nor a file version?
For VdhCoApp you report both result DBG AND DET. I though only one of the two classifications possible. Which one did you observe and mean?
And do you mean that Windows reports only product version but no file version? Or no product version and no file version?
So I guess your feature request already solved as far as it concerns product detection (and checking). There are two aspects in your last feed back which may indeed be feature requests not yet implemented. KC Softwares support will decide if it wants those two aspects seperated into new feature request issues or address it with this one. These feature requests concern:
* specifying and handling SUMos own version definition when the product publisher didn't use one
* (probably create a configuration option) to add a new flagging option in the final SUMo report list to mark entries to keep in the detected list even if later changing configuration of scanning mode or scanning locations to continue for checking
I don't know if I understood a third aspect. The part I understood I don't recommend in that manner. The part reformulated in my last point directly above means a new behaviour making checking and scanning less interwoven. You describe an alternate linkage between scanning and checking. And I'm missing a part on your intention on the scanning phase. Do you want to (temporarily ?) specify ALL locations where SUMo shall scan for programs EXCLUDING its standard search locations or will it be sufficient to (temporarily ?) specify additional locations keeping SUMo searching on its standard search locations?
Please check if there exists already a SUMo entry doing what you want. I'm just an advanced user and didn't try this menu. You can access it either via hot key (Ctrl+F6) or via File -> scan in folder. (I didn't check the native labelling but use a localized variant instead of SUMo.) Please clarify.
If I remember right, there exists already a feature request for that scanning part although not specifying if this would be exclusive or additive, asking for import and export of such storage locations as loadable profiles. I don't remember if I've seen some menu points in the past which may have been used for such a feature.
I'll continue with feed back on your last note in my next note describing how you may adapt your SUMo configuration to get what you want as far as possible requiring no code change (feature extension).
You asked what difference it makes if a product is installed for just one user or for all users. Windows should reply you that it uses different standard locations for storing product binaries, files and components. (And Windows has some more standard storage locations for products.) If installed for all users, it uses system locations. If installed for just one user, it uses a user standard section for storage. You report these user standard locations for your installed products:
* Discord and
* Poco Games Manager
I observe too that most software publishers don't ask their users resp. system administrators if the installation shall be just for the installing user or for all users. I didn't check Microsoft guidance on this aspect. If not asked, I expect usage for all users as the default.
Some software publishers don't ask for the installation and usage but for the configuration (and reporting) to use system location, program location or user location. That's a kind of profile handling.
Portable product "installation" copies its components to locations specified by the user, usually outside standard system location, i.e. on an external (removable) storage like USB stick.
SUMo does file version detection currently in the same manner independant of the kind of installation and the kind of product or file. The background and relation is not between file version detection and the kind of installation. The link is between kind of installation and storage location instead.
SUMo uses only a subset of standard storage locations for scanning with the smallest subset in standard mode and a larger subset in in-depth mode. I already opened a feature request for adding more standard storage locations (in in-depth mode) before. Of your list, this concerns the standard location if installed for a single user which is not (yet) included in the subset for in-depth mode of scanning.
SUMo already provides at least two work arounds to add these storage locations. If you want just the two products mentioned above added, then you may create corresponding short cuts on your Windows desktop. I never used menu point "adding" which might achieve similar result. If you prefer a more generic work around, you may add this standard user storage location, in your case C:\Users\Frank\AppData\Local\ resp. C:\Users\Frank\AppData\, to SUMo search path. The corresponding menu point is called additional folders. You'll find it via menu points options -> settings -> additional folders which allows you to add this user standard storage location via adding dialogue or via drag'n drop.
I don't know yet such internals neither of Windows nor of SUMo, if and how they handle multiple system drives and system folders. I don't know if Windows supports several system drives. I'm sure that Windows supports several system folders though, i.e. for one kind of distinguishing between 32-bit products or components and 64-bit ones, or between machine specific ones, site specific ones and organization-wide ones. SUMo does not (yet) support that many neither in standard mode nor in in-depth mode. It takes into account these local standard program folders for 32-bit products and 64-bit ones. Work around is as described above to use additional folders configuration in SUMo. This concerns your Bethesda launcher of your list. Is this a mounted network drive? (Or how else such a file system structure gets created on another device?)
If you would "install" portable programs or portable frameworks and their programs, you would also need to use this additional folder SUMo setting as SUMo may not know otherwise where to look for. That's probably the initial motivation for providing this feature inside SUMo.
I see now that I was too quick to press submit in my note before. So I'll add another one on first feed back on Hashtab.
As already mentioned before, I don't have access to KC Softwares support email. So further analysis will come of the support service.
Currently, SUMo is limited in determining file version info in application files (exe-extension) and a few other ones. I don't know if this includes (com-extension or bin-extension). And I don't know which kind of (shared) libraries are considered. Do you know which kind of extension mechanism Hashtab uses?
And do you mean that Windows installer database reported a product version and you don't know about file version?
File version can be and should be included in libraries too, regardless if shared ones or not. So Windows is not limited to exe-files for file version info (and as far as I know SUMo neither).
Most of these are already supported by SUMo : https://www.kcsoftwares.com/sumo/start/
May I have more details ?
Yes, Wolf. I can’t make sense of it either, but the HWRaidManager.exe shows a version in the Programs & Features but if you check the Details tab of Properties, there is no file or product version listed.
VdhCoApp has no file version listed in Programs & Features but the app was found using in-depth scan *AND* the Properties -> DETAILS shows both a product and version number. Makes no sense.
My feature request is solved, yes. But, your second point: “(probably create a configuration option) to add a new flagging option in the final SUMo report list to mark entries to keep in the detected list even if later changing configuration of scanning mode or scanning locations to continue for checking” is what I would be requesting. Here’s why. I really only wanted the few apps that weren’t being discovered by the normal scan. At that time I had 171 products. Now I have well over 500 and that is just too unmanageable because it is now listing every sub app and script it can find in the system, even ones that aren’t in normal installation areas. Many of them are co-joined with the main app. I really only want the main app name to show up in the report. Any additional .exe’s the main app installs could be in a separate verbose detailed report but the main report should only show the mainline items. I can achieve that by ignoring a ton of apps but if there was a way to just pick the ones I want to keep and ignore all the rest. For me, that would be more ideal than to add over 300+ entries to my ignore list. :)
The only reason there might be a third aspect is because I can’t figure out how to purge the in-depth scan list and go back to the original 171 item list. I can't revert back it seems. Because, if I could do that, I would use the “Additional Folders” feature and point SUMo directly at the apps I want. Please tell me how to flush the list to effectively “start over”. Any of the ones that didn't show up in the in-depth-scan, those might be the real candidates for this ticket. In addition, I’m going to try the shortcut trick you mentioned, just to see how effective that is, too.
In response to your question, I’m not sure what Hashtab uses. It has no .exe so I wasn’t able to do a properties tab on it to see the details but it is installed with an installer and does show a version in the P&F. It is a shell extension that attaches itself to the properties tab when you right click on a file. It creates a separate tab in there for computing various hashes on the selected file.
||Kyle, You're correct. Most of these can be found using the in-depth scan. I would like the narrow the list down to Hashtab & the TerraMaster RAID Manager because those apps were the only two that could not be found using the in-depth scan. Do I need to provide more info on them than I already have? And I figured out how to reset the list. I checked the Wizard under the Help menu and saw it listed there. Could that option be brought out and put under one of the other menus? I'm going to add Additional Folders (or use shortcuts) and see if that helps find the apps I originally wrote this ticket for.|
So according to your feedback on HWRaidManager and VdhCoApp, the first one should be detected and discarded by SUMo. Discarding happens as SUMo currently doesn't have its own version definition, relying primarily on file version info of executable binaries or libraries.
For Windows Programs & Features it's the other way round. Windows relies on the product version usually found and supplied in the installer resp. uninstaller. If this isn't supplied there, Windows Installer has a few further options where to get the info. One can be the file version info which is also used by SUMo. So when Windows Programs & Features doesn't report any product nor file version but SUMo reports one, then it is probably not coming of the main program binary itself but by some component binary instead which is ascribed to this program.
What do you mean that SUMo in-depth scan also finds scripts?
Do you refer to Visual Basic applications?
Concerning your preference on managing larger information volume, I've a different view (and much larger information volume configured). There is already another feature request (https://www.kcsoftwares.com/bugs/view.php?id=5442 ) addressing this kind of handling. It's scheduled as Long Term. I don't know which aspects will be included in a first phase of implementation and release as this feature might be rolled out in phases. Your desired behaviour may get implemented in one of these phases. And something like getting just the installed programs reported I consider a preferrable result of future standard SUMo scan mode after implementation of this feature request, having some configuration options then to select what "installed" means, and moving component reporting to advanced mode.
In order to revert to the previous list with your 171 results, you've to change the scan back to standard mode and THEN repeat the SUMo scan action. The short cut trick should work for you then. And I didn't use these other features you see at file menu (Ctrl + F7, Ctrl + F6, F6). So I can't say if they lead into your intention or are just different entry points of what I already use by different entry points.
Kyle, you already have these further details for analysis. See third last paragraph of note https://www.kcsoftwares.com/bugs/view.php?id=5578#c3562 . This directs you to the log file he already sent in to support with focus on Hashtab.
And as far as I understand, the means of short cuts seems to me the most appropriate as work around for frank as long as this hierarchical reporting is not implemented.
||For Hashtab, would you please complete ticket 0002712 ?|
Kyle... I put some info over at 0002712 but am not sure if that constitutes "completing the ticket" so let me know if I need to do more.
I like what you proposed over at 5442. Hope that gets implemented someday. In the meantime, I'll be using Normal Mode and my shortcuts :) which, for the most part, are quite effective.
Technically, what you suggested about reverting back doesn't work exactly as described because SUMo simply reloads the list (in my case the debug-mode list) and then starts a normal scan. It wasn't until I reset/flushed the list was I able to start anew.
And, Wolf... thanks so much for all your help. You taught me a lot. I didn't understand the SUMo paradigm until you helped me with this issue. Now I feel better equipped to use this utility like it was intended.
Yes, you understood "completing the ticket" right. Some call it ticket, some call it issue. That may depend on the category.
I already attached a note there as it seems that there are some misunderstandings. I don't know that product. I know the terms though. And they do not match well yet. So you may reply my questions there. And the terms and abbreviation used there by Kyle, he may clarify too. I named some storage locations there where the extension may have stored libraries too, not knowing if this is the case.
Documentation of SUMo is distributed, partially outdated and not well structured. As far as I understood, it wants to be self-explanatory. I can't tell the original intentions behind SUMo as I know it only since the end of life of another more user-friendly tool which is now about 16 months. I know some original intentions. And I would consider some of them more fundamental than others. So less fundamental ones may change over time. The documentation is distributed over this Mantis tracker and the forum, with project SUMo as filter. If you find time and interest, you'll discover less evident features and tricks. I also didn't try nor discover all features yet although knowing and using quite some, in a configuration which is less common and still needs much patience for use.
I didn't use reset the list yet. And there is no debug mode list. You meant the deep scanning list instead. I think it doesn't matter (except for time and depending configuration) if SUMo starts loading its last list, but I expected a new scan to replace the old list by a new one directed by the actual configuration regardless of previous configurations. So did I understand right that after the normal scan finished, you didn't get a new list with your old normal volume plus new short cuts but remaining former deep scan results in the list not coming of your short cuts and only reset helped to clear it to the intended volume?
Yes, you understood that correctly. After switching it back to "Normal" mode and restarting the scan, it kept the old list. So, I saw a setting where you could tell it to not load the list when it starts a scan, but unchecking that ("Reload list before check") still didn't make a difference. Resetting the list (basically, starting completely over) was the only way to truly go back to normal mode. I should add that I didn't create the shortcuts until after I reset the list (since those shortcut files were already in the list).
Thanks for the tips about documentation. I'll start scrounging around here in the forums looking to pick up some tidbits here and there.
I love this tool because it has more potential to get at the maximum number of applications than any other program I've seen. It's not perfect but it's miles and miles ahead of anything else out there. It's one thing to scan your machine to figure out what applications are installed. It's an entirely different thing to know where that application came from and where it resides on the web and to even have a custom version of some of the updates on their servers. SUMo really excels at that.
||Now that HashTab supports gets added, any other program from this list you'd need to see suppported by SUMo ?|
Terramaster HW Raid Manager - it does have a version in P&F but no version information in Properties->Details.
Chrome Remote Desktop Host - C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome Remote Desktop\76.0.3809.117\remoting_desktop.exe - does have a version listed in P&F. The problem is on each update, chrome removes this directory and re-installs it into another directory with the current version name. This means my shortcut method is only good until the next release.
|2019-07-14 23:57||frank479||New Issue|
|2019-07-15 12:15||wolf||Note Added: 0003560|
|2019-07-15 14:26||wolf||Note Added: 0003561|
|2019-07-16 12:57||frank479||Note Added: 0003562|
|2019-07-17 11:46||wolf||Note Added: 0003564|
|2019-07-17 12:49||wolf||Note Added: 0003565|
|2019-07-17 12:58||wolf||Note Added: 0003566|
|2019-07-21 14:21||Kyle_Katarn||Assigned To||=> Kyle_Katarn|
|2019-07-21 14:21||Kyle_Katarn||Status||new => feedback|
|2019-07-21 14:21||Kyle_Katarn||Note Added: 0003590|
|2019-07-22 13:00||frank479||Note Added: 0003594|
|2019-07-22 13:14||frank479||Note Added: 0003595|
|2019-07-22 16:56||wolf||Note Added: 0003596|
|2019-07-24 21:51||Kyle_Katarn||Note Added: 0003601|
|2019-07-24 21:51||Kyle_Katarn||Relationship added||related to 0002712|
|2019-07-25 09:26||frank479||Note Added: 0003606|
|2019-07-25 18:35||wolf||Note Added: 0003608|
|2019-07-26 09:36||frank479||Note Added: 0003610|
|2019-07-27 16:13||Kyle_Katarn||Note Added: 0003626|
|2019-08-15 11:35||Kyle_Katarn||Note Added: 0003674|
|2019-08-15 12:58||frank479||Note Added: 0003676|